Working for logical immigation reform based on a stable population, a recognition of the finite nature of our natural resources and the adverse impact of continued growth on our quality of life, standard of living, national interest, character, language, sovereignty and the rule of law. Pushing back and countering the disloyal elements in American society and the anti-American rhetoric of the leftwing illegal alien lobbies. In a debate, when your opponents turn to name calling, it's a good sign you've already won.

Friday, September 21, 2007

Why We Disagree.

Disagreement about immigration is not peculiarly American. It exists in many countries of the world. Americans are split in half into nature and content. Not the nation but the people. The nation, at least for the moment, is totally and mystically unified, but each American is split into two halves. On the one side are his origins, European, Latin American, Asian; on the other side the enormous opportunities that confront him. We are a people who fled civilizations. Think of that. We are offspring who could not succeed under the established, civilized circumstances, whatever they were---and all of our backgrounds varied. We struggled through hardships to get to the new land, then we found a fantastically rich world. Having left the old countries penniless and hungry, our fathers had to convince themselves that they would build a better place. They taught that to their children. It created tremendous idealism. It created tremendous gullibility. The modern immigration movement is after all lip service to idealism. We want to continue the idealism of our immigrant past but pushing aside our gullibility we know that the instant we allow our past to color our thinking about the present and the future we are doomed.

The U.S., as a fantastically rich nation, exists only in the imagination of those who still live in the past. The U.S. is graying at the temples. Finite resources are in steep decline. Petroleum must be purchased in large quantities abroad. From the perspective of our highways and streets, our country is full.

Poverty may bring forth faith; affluence brings things -- wide screen tv, multiple cars, obesity. We must have faith so Americans have achieved faith in things. Therefore what the American people are faced with is a craving for reassurance that they have kept the faith, the universal faith of our immigrant fathers, the faith of loss and deprivation. Simultaneously the other half is a quivering maw of national sensuality - sensation, tactilities, gluttony, satiety - the essence of total self indulgence, making us dependent on our riches, faith's opposite.

We approach the problem of immigration with the knowledge that finite resources divided over an increasing number of people will ultimately mean a reduction in our quality of life and standard of living. We approach the problem of immigration knowing that more immigrants means more poverty. We know deep in our souls that millions of immigrants, illegal aliens and their progeny will inevitably mean that our standard of living must come into equilibrium with that of the poorer nations who send us their impoverished masses. The solution to this conundrum is apparent for all those who wish to see it. (paraphrased in part from Richard Condon's novel "Mile High")


Lupita said...

Therefore what the American people are faced with is a craving for reassurance that they have kept the faith, the universal faith of our immigrant fathers, the faith of loss and deprivation. Simultaneously the other half is a quivering maw of national sensuality - sensation, tactilities, gluttony, satiety - the essence of total self indulgence, making us dependent on our riches, faith's opposite.

That passage is very beautiful. I was very impressed until I read that you were paraphrasing.

At least you recognized that there was something there worth quoting. Perhaps someday you will interiorize its truth and think like that for yourself.

In a similar vein, perhaps you will enjoy reading this:

Lupita said...

That link did not work. TinyURL to the rescue:

ultima said...

Glad you liked it. I thought Condon's language was exquisite and appropriate even though it was written in a different context (the huge criminal profits to be made from an artificially induced prohibition in the early 1900s). We all are incessantly reminded of our immigrant past. I thought this adaptation of Condon's words put that in a little different light. Condon's main character is a first generation Irish American who grew up in the era of Tammany Hall, political bossism, crime, and gross governmental corruption. Not so different from today. Have we made no progress since then?

Lupita said...

We all are incessantly reminded of our immigrant past.

We? Only Americans constantly talk about their ancestry and cling to the romantic idea of being part of ancient faraway communities. Americans are no more part of foreign nations by virtue of a surname, hair texture, or a recipe brought out on Christmas, than the Muslim Brotherhood is Islamic by virtue of reading a translated Koran while in jail.

Americans are reminded of their immigrant past to compensate for their lack of identity caused by being part of a non-nation that is no more than a great, big supermarket.

The rest of us do not suffer such alienation. It is a Gringo thing.

patriot said...

Lupita, I agree with you for the most part. I have no need to identify with my ancestor's country. My family has been here for a few generations now and I only think of myself as an American, nothing else.

I think that Mexican immigrants are among the most guilty of what you are stating though. I don't think that by them becoming a "gringo" aka an American has anything to do with their undying attachment to Mexico. I think it is a cultural thing. Just my opinion.

tweety said...

Hi, Lupita long time no see. I am trying to get some friends of mine to join this blog (one did) and hope that some of the old Matt members will come back and be regulars again. I always enjoyed reading Ultima's thoughts and have always agreed with most of his viewpoints. I wish there was a way to contact the old Matt members and get Ultima's blog going. Maybe Michael will come back and post. Hope you will become a regular again too.

Lupita said...

Become a regular? I am and have always been Ultma's most steadfast and reliable poster. Right, Ultima? By the way, I bumped into Gregorio yesterday on MATT and gave him Ultima's address. He said he would come by.

Lupita said...

Hi Patriot. I disagree that Mexicans are guilty of subscribing to a pseudo-identity for the sole reason that we really are Mexican and thus really do have a Mexican culture.

It is the American-born offspring of Mexicans who do not speak Spanish, have never visited Mexico, and know nothing of its present and past who cling to an alienating "Hispanic" identity replete with superficial celebrations and a fake history.

Americans are required to state their "ethnic group" from the day they are born and are bombarded since kindergarten with the supposed peculiarities of each group. None of this exists in any other country in the world. It is a Gringo thing.

I have heard Americans state "I am Italian" meaning they have an Italian great-great-grandfather and take great pride in being "one sixteenth Apache". The problem is that people need to feel part of a greater community and American culture does not offer community, only individuality. Hence all the rootless Gringos claiming roots.

tweety said...

I check in here everyday and don't see much activity. I do see you in here once in awhile, lupita. I also check out Matt's blog and post in there also. I mostly post in API now. Yes, I saw that Gregorio was in the Matt blog. Glad you invited him over here.

I have many friends who are opposed to illegal immigration and like to talk politics but they don't usually frequent blogs or forums. I think I can convert them one at a time and this is a good place to do it.

Dee said...

Pat, Now you get more of a feel for Hispanics. The Americans who are Hispanic do not want to reclaim America in the name of Mexico. That is a pipe dream made up by the ANTI extremists. There is no such thing as Aztlanish theory except for a very, very few groups.

Most Mexican Americans love America and are proud to be Americans.

Ms. Lupita is an Illegal Immigrant. She is school teacher who overstayed her visa and clings to this country as she denigrates our USA.

She also hates Americans with Hispanic ancestory (or as we sometimes call ourselves, Mexican Americans).

She calls all Americans bourgeouis and she calls most Americans (of Mexican descent) including me a Prot (Proletariat - the poor underclass escaping MX because those in power have done such a poor job.) She looks down on us as inferior and she has utter disdain for us because we are proud Americans and we do not speak Spanish. Yet she is here in this country illegally.

It just does not make sense.

What I find odd is, even though she spouts utter disdain for our country, forecasting gloom and doom and gleefully predicts the downfall of our economy, the ANTIs here enjoy talking to her. Such an odd thing. Or as Alice often said, "Courious and Curiouser."

Dee said...

Ultima, I disagree with your blog. People come here to escape the lawlessness and poverty of their former countries. They seek a better life for their children.

Many historians have said it takes a generation to assimilate. The vast majority of the 12M and new immigrants arrived over the last 20 years. It does take a generation. A generation has not yet passed.

Once assimilated and educated, they and their children will move up in class. Where they could not move up in class and were doomed to stay "Prots" in their previous countries, we have witnesses the success of generation after generation.

This happened with the Germans, the Irish and with all that came when my Dad and his siblings came to our country. The legal citizens who are Hispanic prove this every, every day.

You ask why I say Hispanic? You know as well I do this is your reference. We can pull out the numbers and the stats and the ratio of legal vs illegal, new vs previous immigrants (legal and illegal). We know your underlying meaning when you say words as you have in previous posts. Words like "Mexifornia" and "Mexus."

It takes a generation.

And you know what Ultima? We are proud to be Americans!! Americans!! We claim NOTHING for any other country but our own. American -- the Great USA!!

patriot said...

Well, looky who is here, the Dee blogger.

Those Mexican immigrants who have arrived here in the last 20 years are mostly illegal aliens not assimilating legal immigrants. Hence, the word Mexifornia.

Many of these illegals don't arrive with children. They are single men so they aren't trying to give their kids a better life.

The issue isn't Hispanic citizens but illegal aliens mostly from Mexico. No need for you to defend Hispanic citizens, they aren't under attack.

ultima said...

Welcome all! I have explained at length previously the aptness of the term Mexifornia. It is simply the reality or as one writer put it, "the state of becoming". Some will hasten to point out that not all Hispanics in California are Mexican. True enough, but the term "Mexican" is close enough for government work. Or should we settle on Hipanifornia or maybe the older name Hispaniola, an island in the West Indies divided into Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

ultima said...

Lupita, as always, adds a bit of spice to the mix and is often closer to the mark than any of us are willing to admit.

Richard Condon is Americ's master of satire and suspense. He is the author of "The Manchurian Candidate", "Winter Kills" and seventeen other major novels. "In "The Whisper of the Axe" he causes the reader to flinch at the cruel wounds his provocative pen inflicts upon American society. (Just Lupita's cup of tea.) But reading between the lines you'll know Condon loves America more than any of us." -- Len Deighton

Lupita said...

What is API, Tweety? Is it any fun? I have been posting on "Candide´s Notebooks" and enjoying myself tremendously with the American seudo-left. We are still in the initial phase in which they freak out at the word "Gringo" and are shocked to learn that their bourgeois obsessions are not considered leftist by anybody except themselves, kind of like my spats with the seudo-Mexicans on MATT.

tweety said...

lupita, API is alt.politics.immigration. It is a google group. It is unmoderated so it can get pretty nasty at times. A good mix of both sides of the issue however.

ultima said...

Ultima, I disagree with your blog. People come here to escape the lawlessness and poverty of their former countries. They seek a better life for their children.

Where does my post say otherwise? I believe the great German immigration was due to depressed economic conditions, memories of conflicts and the counter reformation. Then there was the potato famine in Ireland. We have our share of lawlessness and political corruption. Tammany Hall was a good example.

tweety said...

The current batch of illegals are escaping "lawlessness" in their own countries while breaking our laws to come here? How ironic.

mirrorism said...

Dee, lupita doesn't "hate Americans with Hispanic ancestry" she simply refuses to acknowledge their existence, lol. If not that, she refuses to believe that "Hispanic" heritage, custom, history, language, etc. is passed on during conception as is believed in the US.

How is she wrong? What do you have in common with the average Mexican besides your skin-tone and surname?