Working for logical immigation reform based on a stable population, a recognition of the finite nature of our natural resources and the adverse impact of continued growth on our quality of life, standard of living, national interest, character, language, sovereignty and the rule of law. Pushing back and countering the disloyal elements in American society and the anti-American rhetoric of the leftwing illegal alien lobbies. In a debate, when your opponents turn to name calling, it's a good sign you've already won.

Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Christmas 2007

A Christmas Tale of an Illegal Alien

On a late December morning in 1982, he pulled into the vineyard, jumped out of a broken-down station wagon filled with seven kids and asked the farmer if he could do some work in the vineyard until he could find another job. He looked exhausted—red-eyed, unshaven, in dirty clothes. The farmer detected an air of quiet desperation about him. The children looked like they might not have eaten recently. So although he really needed no help this time of year, the farmer gave the Mexican what work he had, even though it was only for two days.

Years later, the farmer saw el Mexicano viejo again and he still didn’t look good. Now over sixty, with white rather than raven-black hair, he had continued as an occasional farm laborer and now walked permanently stooped. He speaks not a word of English. None of his children graduated from high school. He has many children and grandchildren (anchor babies), some on various forms of disability, welfare and unemployment, others successful and gainfully employed, and a few who had been jailed.

When the Mexican left his homeland many years earlier his government wanted him and others like him to be gone lest they agitate over their poverty or the bleak future looming for their many children they never should have had, given their desperate circumstances.

On the other side of the border, American farmers and businessmen, eager to exploit this source of cheap labor, offered them jobs with substandard wages, poor living conditions and no health care benefits. This laid the ground-work for liberals and ethnic activists who wanted the Mexicans and their families as future “progressive” voters or as statistics in their loyal ranks of needy constituents.

Other Americans didn’t think about that very much. In some locales, the Mexicans came, helped with the harvest, and then disappeared. There were no headlines in the media. Anglos who worked with them or in similar jobs saw no threat from their temporary presence in the community. Then, the numbers of such families began to seem like a flood or an unarmed invasion. Some of them opened businesses catering to their brethren and stayed year round instead of returning to Texas or Mexico. Others were able to gain enough social services assistance and free school lunches for their children to enable them to survive until the next harvest season.

The Americans assumed initially that the children, at least, were learning English and staying in school until they graduated, offering the prospect that they would eventually become socially integrated and culturally and linguistically assimilated. However, the media soon began to report stories about the high drop out rate among these children, including those who were birthright instant citizens and had never been in Mexico.

El Mexicano viejo was typical of these migrant workers. He had always planned to die in Mexico but then things began to change as the local area began to become more like Mexico and the people more like his family. More people spoke Spanish and made little effort to learn English. The schools became more segregated than ever as both urban and rural areas were taken over by the illegals and their anchor offspring who, in turn, provided a basis for more people to come through chain immigrations.

Scholastic achievement in the schools plummeted. Although there were new signs of material wealth—newer cars, cell phones, color TVs, CD players and VCRs, there was also much more anger that “aliens”, even if their fortunes had greatly improved in the U.S., remained still poorer than the native-born. The connection between this state of affairs and the drop out rate escaped them. They just assumed it was some sort of nativism, racism or bigotry that was keeping them down. Some believed that separatism was the answer. One professor suggested a new separate country, El Republica del Norte, as the embodiment of the separatist concept.

The government-subsidized housing just down the street in many cities was full of small children, baby carriages, and pregnant women who have no skills and are wholly dependent on government largess and the minimum wages or less their drop out husbands are able to earn.

Those who managed to escape this fate found themselves in the clutches of ethnic and social studies faculty whose main interest is to secure tenure and assure a continuing supply of pliable minds for their ethnic activism, separatist rants, racist student organizations and later, their adult counterparts.

In a nation beset with new enemies, since 9/11, who wish to destroy us, do we have common values and ideas that unite us more than divide us? If our fundamentalist adversaries see us Americans of all colors, ethnicities and religions, without exception, as infidels deserving of death simply by virtue of being Americans, do we likewise see ourselves as a united people? Is America a single culture as our medieval foes assert? Or are we, as many of our sophisticated, homegrown disloyal separatists and social critics allege, many cultures of many races (the salad bowl concept)?

If snipers, suicide bombers and poisoners wish to kill indiscriminately black, brown, yellow and white Americans because they are alike, why do many professors, journalists and politicians claim that we are and should be different and separate? Sounds like a recipe for disaster rather than a prescription for a unified nation under God, doesn’t it?.

It is folly to emphasize our differences over our similarities, to champion separatism and toy with the principle that the rule of law matters only according to the circumstances and particular interests of those involved.

Christmas 2007—25 years after el Mexicano viejo arrived at the farm in 1982. Merry Christmas.

79 comments:

mirrorism said...

How do you emphasize our similarities? The only people I've seen do this around these parts are myself, Dee, and, as an "outsider", Lupita. You on the other hand...

ultima said...

Actually there is very little I can do except call the problem to everyone's attention. The main point of the story is that it is others who are emphasizing the differences--the school curricula, the political correct crowd, the ethnic studies profs, the liberals, and other social activists.

It is hard to emphasize our similarities when we disagree so passionately about the fix to our immigration dilemma. I have said on many occasions, that although I believe a smaller population would be better given our dwindling natural resource, I do hope that all citizens share a common interest in opposing illegal aliens. That is a similarity I would like us all to adopt. If you ,Dee and whoever see it differently that is a big problem. A similarity can be achieved only if we are on the same page on this issue. I'm not saying there is no room for compromise. The question is who should have the longest road to travel to reach that compromise. I start with the rule of law and the potential threat to our nation if the number of illegals exceeds our ability to assimilate. Dee, and perhaps you, start with the idea of some form of amnesty for all who are here regardless of the burden that may place on the rest of the population and our economy. As a nation teetering on the brink of insolvency, I cannot be sanguine about the outcome if we continue with the present de facto open borders policy and refuse to use deportation as a mean to buttress the physical measures at the border with internal enforcement driven by mismatch and duplicate ssn letters.

What do you suggest? I believe you are off base by suggesting that you, Dee and Lupita are emphasizing our similarities. Sure we are all human beings and should treat each other as such but some of us are citizens and some are not, some believe in the immigration laws and the rule of law, others do not. Other than your ethnicity what else do you share as a similarity with DEE and Lupita? Is it your opposition to the rule of law? Is it your acceptance of the de facto open borders? Is it your willingness to grant amnesty to anyone who can sneak across the border and show some fake evidence that they have been here for ten years? Is it you unwillingness to endorse an effective program to secure the borders and implement full scale workplace enforcement?

What similarities do you think we should emphasize?

ultima said...

One dissimilarity I do not emphasize or even consider is our respective ethnicities. Lupita seemed to comprehend this point. She says we are all gringos and that our focus on race is ridiculous. My views are similar to hers in that respect.

I would welcome your thoughts on that on other related matters.

Lupita said...

Today is Lupita's Day. Is not anyone going to congratulate me?

mirrorism said...

To me, your story emphasized stereotypes and falsehoods, which I will not list, but we can conclude from them that nothing good comes from Mexican immigrants or their American children. They ruined Christmas!

Why does there have to be a mono-opinion in this issue? It's one of many in the US, to most, it's not even the most important.

I believe we are all alike and we're all equally awful...
Dee believes we are alike and we're all equally great...
Lupita believes we are all alike and we're all equally doomed...

You believe we can only be alike if we believe illegal-immigrants are terrible for the U.S.

Me, Dee, and Lupita believe us/them--Americans--are all alike, but that's probably where our similarities end.

I can't enforce the rule of law...
I can't change de-facto policies...
I can't grant amnesty to anyone...
I can't secure the border nor implement full scale workplace enforcements...

We should emphasize that we are all two drops of water... Lol..




I agree with what you said in your last comment, but I don't believe that you believe it... If you did why are you so certain that we're well on our way to third-world status because of peoples with southern descendants? If it does happen it will be because we never learned how to treat our poor with any sympothy or respect.

ultima said...

"Today is Lupita's Day. Is not anyone going to congratulate me?"

Your birthday? Or just your name in print several times? Congratulations!

mirrorism said...

Took me a minute but it shouldn't have... Today I went to church at 5 in the morning to sing las mañanitas a la Virgen de Guadalupe. I've never heard of it being called Día de (Guada)Lupita.

mirrorism said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mirrorism said...

Ultima, today is el día de la Virgen de Guadalupe or the day of the Virgen of Guadalupe. It commemorates the first appearance of the Virgen Mary in Mexico. The Juan Diego story, I'm sure you've heard of it.

Lupita said...

Thank you, corazones. And thank you, Mirrorism, for educating our host.

ultima said...

Someone has suggested that to solve a problem we need to have: (1) incentives for people to do the right thing (and if that doesn't work disincentives for them not to do the wrong thing); (2) transparency so we can tell if they have done the right thing; and (3) accountability if they do the wrong thing.

Two out of three won't solve our problems. So what incentives are there to encourage people to do the right thing? Can agree that there are at least four parties involved: the illegal aliens, their fellow travelers, their employers, and governments that permit de facto open borders. We probably run aground on the issue of which of these parties has the greatest culpability. I believe the illegals and their fellow travelers or sympathizers have the greatest degree of culpability. They cannot escape this culpability based on the exculpatory roles of business and government. They cannot escape this culpability because of the law west of the Pecos. They cannot escape this culpability because they did not know there are legal boundaries between sovereign countries.

The employers are certainly culpable. In some sense they are like the illegals. The illegals violate the border because they can, the employers hire them because they love cheap labor and people who are willing to give a day's work for a day's pay. The government is certainly culpable because it has failed to enforce the law at the border and internally, often because of heavy contributors to the various political campaigns.

Having assigned culpability, we must then turn our attention to what incentives we can create to do the right thing. Of course, in my opinion the right thing is for all illegals to return to compliance with the law by returning home and waiting in line behind all those who have already applied for legal immigration. Questions about the complexity of immigration rules and the long waits are really irrelevant to this issue. Compliance is what is required whether or not this is what individuals might prefer. I need some help here to think of incentives for these folks to do the right thing. Perhaps the need is for disincentives in the form of regular deportation of significant numbers until they get the message or end up in jail as repeat offenders.

Transparency to me requires hard facts in terms of an increase in the numbers repatriated, a decline in apprehensions at the border and internally together with stepped patrols and enforcement. I don't want to hear about the number of BP agents hired, the number of miles of fence constructed or other physical improvements.

Accountability means failure to enforce immigration laws as an impeachable offense and a cause for firing of department heads and individual agents as appropriate.

There are many other elements of this but if we do not agree on the objective those elements are irrelevant. There is no sense in talking about border security unless we are prepared to take ALL of the steps necessary to achieve it.

ultima said...

"Ultima, today is el día de la Virgen de Guadalupe or the day of the Virgen of Guadalupe. It commemorates the first appearance of the Virgen Mary in Mexico. The Juan Diego story, I'm sure you've heard of it."

Thank you. I think I have heard the Juan Diego story. Does this mean this is everyone's day who has the name Guadalupe or Lupita? If so, what is the significance of that? Is it like a birthday? A Saint's Day? Does everyone have such a day? Does it have any general significance for only for Mexican catholics?

Of course, as a black-hearted, fallen-away Protestant, I view all such events with great skepticism. But hey, if it's enough to get someone out of bed by 5AM, it must be considered important by that person. When I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, a friend of mine was very religious about attending mass every morning before class. Now he says the catholic church is irrelevant. He never explained why he thought so. He is a professor of biology emeritus.

ultima said...

"Today is Lupita's Day. Is not anyone going to congratulate me?"

Why does some obscure event or non-event in Mexico many years ago entitle you to congratulations? There must be something about this that I still don't understand.

ultima said...

"your story emphasized stereotypes and falsehoods, which I will not list,"

Why not list them and explain them?
They may not be so obvious to me.

El Mexicano viejo in the story is just one person and it was not my intent to suggest that all are like him. He is just one person. Nevertheless, a scruffy, uneducated individual in an old car probably is not far off the mark for many illegals. I once sold my auto to such an individual. After all if they are willing to work for substandard wages and if Mexican women on average have a higher fertility rate and if the catholic church takes no position against having more children than one can reasonably support, what conclusion can one draw? You might call that stereotyping; others might call it the average or mean. Are you suggesting that nothing is typical and that we should discard that word from the English language? Usually when we use the word typical we are referring to the mean rather than to all. This is probably unfair to those on the upper end of the bell curve but complementary to those on the other end. Perhaps it is like referring to certain persons as "Black" even though they come in many shades some of which are hardly "Black".

ultima said...

"your story emphasized stereotypes and falsehoods, which I will not list, but we can conclude from them "

Without listing them I doubt anyone will allow you to conclude anything from them. I am particularly interested in the alleged falsehoods. What are they and why do you think they are in fact false? What evidence can you cite?

What you conclude from them whatever they are is, of course, heavily influenced by your own open border and other biases.

ultima said...

"...nothing good comes from Mexican immigrants or their American children. They ruined Christmas!"

This is a faulty extrapolation of the point of the story. Note the following quote, "...others successful and gainfully employed,".
This is the root of some of our difficulties. We look at things or read the same posts and come to diametrically opposed conclusions or interpretations. This is a story of one Mexican family. It may be, at least in some respects, typical of many anglo families as well. There are homeless and hungry folks out there and they are not all or even mostly Mexicans.

Where does it say, "They ruined Christmas?" If you want to draw conclusions, please at least stick to the text and not add your own spin. I conclude the opposite because the farmer, who himself was on the verge of bankruptcy, performed a minor act of Christian charity to help the family at least be able to eat on Christmas.

ultima said...

"Why does there have to be a mono-opinion in this issue? It's one of many in the US, to most, it's not even the most important."

Obviously there doesn't have to be and there isn't as evidenced by your post and Dee's entire blog. I just believe honestly that you and Dee are misguided and myopic. If the current trends continue, I believe Mexico Norte is inevitable. Dee likes to boast about the expanding Hispanic population which is a fact. The question is how will this change America? It already has with CA approaching bankruptcy, increasing levels of poverty which some authoritative writers have attributed to immigrants both legal and illegal.

Of course, if you believe Mexico Norte will be a good thing for you personally, if not for everyone, and if you believe America will be better off with 500-600 million people and declining natural resources per capita by the end of this century, then I can see why you think other opinions are a good thing rather than a narrowly defined single opinion on what is best for this country's rule of law, sovereignty, quality of life, standard of living--broadly defined as "the national interest".

ultima said...

"...to most, it's not even the most important."

I'm sure you are right based on national polls. Some consider the Iraq war and health care the most important issues. The thing that is different about the immigration conundrum is that what we do today will determine the future of this country. The war and health care are more immediate. This short term focus is typical of us all but if we ignore the problems of immigration on the basis that we have plenty of time to deal with that later, when that time comes it will be too late. Welcome to Mexico Norte!

If you see nothing wrong with that scenario, then I guess I am puzzled by the wisdom of anyone who sees a re-creation of Mexico and all its ills as a good or benign thing.

mirrorism said...

Lupita will probably have to correct me, but this is how I understand it:

Along with it being the day of the Virgin of Guadalupe it could also be Lupita's birthday which is why she is named after her. Basically, when you're born your parents look at a catholic calender--I believe it's called "Calendario Litúrgico"--and they give you the name of your saint. My mom and her siblings were named that way, but not my father and his siblings. Rarely used today, because the names are not at all modern... think Shakespeare times, kids get teased.

ultima said...

"I believe we are all alike and we're all equally awful...
Dee believes we are alike and we're all equally great...
Lupita believes we are all alike and we're all equally doomed..."

I like these characterizations but I believe:
(1) We are not all alike; we aren't even born equal.
(2) I believe the rule of law, however poorly enforced or observed, is the foundation of civilized societies.
(3) Others discard that as unimportant in the grand scheme of things; they have some unvoiced substitute for man-made laws.
(4) I believe population growth will inevitably lead to a decline in our standard of living as finite natural resources are spread over an ever increasing number of people.
(5) I believe bi-lingualism is a waste of time and money for most people. Even most Europeans who study language have little use for them. They live in their own little microcosm of the world and rarely have need to use them and so they rather quickly lose them and their time spent studying them will have been largely wasted.
(6) I believe a common language is the single most important unifying force in any society. There are others of course. (If Northen Ireland had been catholic, many lives would have been spared.)
(7) I believe the increasing number of cultural enclaves will shatter our unity as a nation.
(8) Although the data are not always consistent, I believe immigrants and illegals and their children cost our nation far more than their positive contributions are worth.
(9) I believe immigrants and their progeny draw far more in government subsidies than they produce.
(10) I believe profess to be good but often fail in our daily lives.
(11) I believe illegal aliens are God's way of teaching us about the value of immigration law and national sovereignty.
(12) I live by the truth that "No." is a complete sentence.
(13) I believe a clear conscience is usually a sign of myopia or bad memory.
(14) I believe in our efforts to be angelic we establish the principle that the state is responsible for an individual's success or failure.
(15) I believe no Americans want out but millions of Mexicans most assuredly want in to the U.S.--a stark truth that cuts through all the nonsense about race and immigration that emanates from both sides of the border.
(16) I believe pro-illegals invoke and atmosphere of tolerance and humanity as justification for the destruction of the rule of law and national unity that helped us become a nation in the first place.
(17) I believe one's affections may be divided, but his allegiance, loyalty and patriotism are inseparable; and this applies with equal force to citizens and permanent legal residents of all nationalities and ethnicities who have made our country their home.

ultima said...

"I can't enforce the rule of law...
I can't change de-facto policies...
I can't grant amnesty to anyone...
I can't secure the border nor implement full scale workplace enforcements..."

Neither can I but I can let my congressman and senators know what I think. And I can certainly state what my position is on each of those as I have many times. What is your position on each of them?

ultima said...

"You believe we can only be alike if we believe illegal-immigrants are terrible for the U.S.

Me, Dee, and Lupita believe us/them--Americans--are all alike, but that's probably where our similarities end."

I believe we can only survive as a nation based on the rule of law if we deal forthrightly and effectively with the illegal aliens. This does not mean all are terrible for the US. Even the densest of us realizes that fruits and vegetables would not get picked without them. We want their selective labor where we have no alternative. At the same time we would prefer that they remain as citizens of their own country and return there every year when the harvest is in or when pregnancies occur. Otherwise, each successive generation will shun this kind of work and we will have to have a continuing flow, a literal flood of illegal aliens, with no opportunity for assimilation.

Others, as we well know, from countries all over the world, have come here and ultimately made a successful life for their families so it is a gross overstatement to say all illegal aliens are terrible for the US; however, too many of them are or will be.

ultima said...

Mirror, thank you for your posts. I value your point of view.

mirrorism said...

Stereotypes examples;

1. 7 children
2. Didn't learn a word of English
3. None of his children graduated from high school
4. His children and grandchildren were almost all failures and or criminals

Your falsehood was implying that his American children didn't learn English.

Technically, you can make up or find a true story just like that one with any un-educated man's family in America. It's typical of the poor, why single out a Mexican man's family? Why exagerate so grossly?

There's nothing average about that particular story, it's full of exagerrations.



It's fairly obvious that for dramatic effect you contrasted that man's terrible family with Christmas, the most wonderful time of the year.

"...others succesful and gainfully employed." But, on the whole, that man's family was a failure.

mirrorism said...

California is not close to bankruptcy or if it is, so to is the U.S., and us.

If you want to stop poverty and inequality you don't just sit back and watch it grow.

I don't believe in a Mexico Norte. I believe that America is becoming more and more unequal; the poor and middle class are losing, the upper classes are winning, the poor are the scapegoats.

What will the population of the U.S. grow to if illegal immigration is halted today?

mirrorism said...

When the rule of law is ignored at the top why should you expect the bottom to follow it?

Has everyone accepted that illegal-immigration is a United States de-facto policy?

If we can forgive those on top who implement and benefit from ignoring the laws why can't we forgive those at the bottom who suffer from it?

mirrorism said...

1.) The only thing that makes us unequal is $$$...

2.) When those on the top ignore the rule of law you can be sure to see those at the bottom follow...

3.) Like those at the top...

4.) This is inevitable...

5.) Those who speak two languages count for two...

6.) Freedom of speech and religion...

7.) America's race obsession will not allow anything else...

8.) Nobody ever takes into account inflation when making their biased calculations...

9.) Because they are typically poor...

11.) And Juan Diego was God's way of showing the indigenous people of New Spain the way?

12.) So is "Welcome."

14.) The state is responsible for the state's success or failure...

15.) No Americans? Millions of Mexicans? You haven't talked to enough of either.

16.) So it's the compassionate citizens fault even though they don't benefit at all from illegal-immigration. Rather than the fault of those who are anything but compassionate for any American or foreigner and who are making record profits?

17.) This is impossible...

Lupita said...

Does this mean this is everyone's day who has the name Guadalupe or Lupita? If so, what is the significance of that? Is it like a birthday? A Saint's Day? Does everyone have such a day? Does it have any general significance for only for Mexican catholics?

How can you claim your backwater is Mexico Norte in light of such vast ignorance? First, get civilized and minimally informed and then you may call yourselves Mexas, Mexifornia, or whatever.

ultima said...

"I agree with what you said in your last comment, but I don't believe that you believe it... If you did why are you so certain that we're well on our way to third-world status because of peoples with southern descendants? If it does happen it will be because we never learned how to treat our poor with any sympothy or respect."

To me, third world status means primarily too many people and dwindling natural resources. There are probably other factors such as the history, culture, politics,and respect for the rule of law. Although I do not emphasize ethnicity because I know individuals of every race are capable of significant achievements. Yet, can we count on that if failed cultures and political systems are transplanted wholesale in the millions on the body-politic of the U.S.?

As far as respect and sympathy for the poor is concerned, they like everyone else have to earn the former and they tend to lost the latter if they make little effort to better themselves, particularly in the U.S. where government subsidies for food, housing, medical care and other services to the poor merely seem to freeze them in that status. I am reminded of some advice John Edwards gave to young black women. He suggested that if they preferred not to raise their children in poverty with the potential for a life of crime, they should get an education or a skill and a job before they even think about having children. As you know some of all races feel they have the right to have illegitimate children at the taxpayers' expense and then depend further on food stamps, subsidized housing, aid to dependent children, etc to support those children.

The antipathy toward some poor people is not directed at them personally as human beings but rather at their indolence and seeming unwillingness to work to better their conditions.

I know poverty. My father was a laborer who probably earned no more than $2,000-$3000 per year with no pension plan and no health care plan. He probably looked like el Mexicano viejo in many respects at times with a bunch of kids some of whom were around during the great depression. How did he do it? He put in a large garden every year. My mother canned fruits, meat and vegetables. We picked wild berries and apples that grew on trees along the road. We did stoop labor to earn enough for a winter coat or boots. For a time we did not own a car or a telephone. No running water, etc. I could go on and on about this to prove that I know about poverty, before the days of governmental largess. Perhaps it was the lack of that largess that prompted us to better ourselves. Three of us had some college. Four served in the armed forces. Some had successful marriages, some did not.

You seem to leave some of your sentences unfinished like "You on the other hand...". Why not spell it out rather than deal in innuendo?

What exactly would you consider respect and sympathy for the poor beyond what we already do in the way of voluntary donations and indirect donations through our tax dollars. Would an increase in government largess and confiscatory tax rates be a way to protect us from third world status?

What do you do to show your respect and sympathy for the poor? Is that really significantly different from what the average American does?

ultima said...

"To me, your story emphasized stereotypes and falsehoods, which I will not list,"

Why? List them and prove that they are what you say they are.

ultima said...

"I believe we are all alike and we're all equally awful...
Dee believes we are alike and we're all equally great...
Lupita believes we are all alike and we're all equally doomed..."

Speaking of stereotypes....!

ultima said...

"Me, Dee, and Lupita believe us/them--Americans--are all alike"

Only in a very limited sense. We should all have equal rights under the law but we are not created equal in terms of native intelligence, ambition, talent, physique, appearance,citizenship, allegiance,language, culture,politics, etc. and it is absurd to pretend otherwise. So us/them --Americans-- aren't an cannot be all alike.

ultima said...

"How can you claim your backwater is Mexico Norte in light of such vast ignorance? First, get civilized and minimally informed and then you may call yourselves Mexas, Mexifornia, or whatever."

Ah Lupe, you add a whole new meaning to the word civilized. I guess I must have struck a nerve there with my ignorance of some extremely minor and obscure element of a backwater culture in a backwater country. Knowledge of "Guadalupe" hardly qualifies as a criterion for civilization or knowledge as opposed to ignorance.

To satisfy you I guess I will have to look it up in the Encyclopedia Britannica or on line. What should I look under for this obscure factoid?

ultima said...

"When the rule of law is ignored at the top why should you expect the bottom to follow it?"

Good point but how can we complain about the former if we do nothing but complain. I believe that FDR had the right explanation for this when he commented about Anton Cermak, former mayor of Chicago. When someone said he was an SOB, Roosevelt said, "Yes, but he is our SOB (i.e. a democrat)."

I hope I got that name right. But the former are our SOBs and the latter are someone elses.

ultima said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Cermak

ultima said...

"Basically, when you're born your parents look at a catholic calender--I believe it's called "Calendario Litúrgico"--and they give you the name of your saint."

Very interesting. Thank you. Does this mean there is a different saint for every day of the year or does a particular saint hold sway over several days out of the calendar?

ultima said...

"Stereotypes examples;

1. 7 children
2. Didn't learn a word of English
3. None of his children graduated from high school
4. His children and grandchildren were almost all failures and or criminals

Your falsehood was implying that his American children didn't learn English.

Technically, you can make up or find a true story just like that one with any un-educated man's family in America. It's typical of the poor, why single out a Mexican man's family? Why exagerate so grossly?

There's nothing average about that particular story, it's full of exagerrations.

1. How do I tell a true story about a man with 7 children without being accused of stereotyping? There is, of course, and element of truth in this picture because of the fertility rate of Mexican women which is 50% higher than that of American women. Asian also have a higher fertility rate.
2. Again the failure to learn English was a fact in this particular case. I am also told that there is a butcher here in Denver that has been here 20 years and still doesn't speak a word of English. I'm sure in both cases it is an exaggeration to say they don't speak a word of English but this is a normal way of expressing the idea that one's command of a language is extremely limited. You could say I don't speak a word of Spanish or German but in fact I do know a word or two. Lupita would quickly add that that is a far cry from speaking the language and that is the intent of the expression "he doesn't speak a word of..." It means he is not fluent in the language and has made little attempt to gain even the smallest facility with the language.
3. In reality this is true for just this particular family not a stereotype. I can think of several things about my own family that might not be so complimentary. I wouldn't consider them stereotyping of all anglos. Yet, we know the drop out rate for Hispanics is too high so you can conclude what was true for this family is true to some degree for all families but especially for Hispanics. How do you explain the drop out rate--is it culture? language? What is the cause?

4. I don't read it that way. Some were, some weren't. Some were successful and gainfully employed. Why did you choose to overlook that fact about this family?

With regard to his family learning English, you are suggesting facts that are not in evidence. No where do I imply or suggest his children and grandchildren did not learn English. I do not know how many if any did not learn English. The logical assumption would be that if they spent any time in school and outside a Spanish-speaking enclave they would have learned some English--enough to qualify as being fluent.

Thank you for elaborating on your thoughts on the story. It is largely a true story. I think this story and your reaction to it is illustrative of the great divide between the pro-legals and the pro-illegals.

ultima said...

"Rarely used today, because the names are not at all modern... think Shakespeare times, kids get teased."

Yes, my sister's name was a little unusual and she always had difficulty when people would question how to spell it. She solved the problem for her children by using simple names like Mary, Sara, John, Julie, etc.

ultima said...

"The only thing that makes us unequal is $$$..."

Perhaps so, but there was a time when the blue noses looked down upon the nouveau rich. I also suggest that a big time drug dealer may have lots of money but in my mind that does not make him equal. In other words, I think you oversimplify our differences by attributing them solely to $$$. You, Dee and I may have the same incomes but we still have our differences>

ultima said...

"California is not close to bankruptcy or if it is, so to is the U.S., and us."

I guess you know Lupita's gloom and doom view of that. Bankruptcy is probably an exaggeration but hard times ahead is not, for both CA and US.

ultima said...

"When those on the top ignore the rule of law you can be sure to see those at the bottom follow..."

I like to emphasize both. I'd like to see presidents impeached if fail to implement the law. This must be a high crime or misdemeanor. Likewise, I think department heads and individual ICE and BP agents terminated for failure to enforce the law. I thought Julie Myers re-appointment was being held up by congress for that reason.

The so-called comprehensive immigration reform bills were an attempt by congress to absolve themselves of the responsibility to require the executive department to enforce the existing laws by just changing them. It didn't work on the first two tries. But those at the top will continue to try to absolve themselves as long as we keep re-electing those with that point of view.

ultima said...

"Like those at the top..."

And those at the bottom. We can do something about the former with the result that they will do something about the latter.

ultima said...

"It is inevitable..."
Only if we do nothing about illegal aliens, excessive legal immigration, and birthright citizenship. Otherwise that is the inevitability I am talking about. I guess your message is: since it is inevitable we should relax and enjoy it.

I like the alternative better. Continue to agitate for change, send a message to Washington, vote 'em out of office, letters to the editor, appeal to congress's self-interest.

ultima said...

"It's fairly obvious that for dramatic effect you contrasted that man's terrible family with Christmas, the most wonderful time of the year."

Not so much his terrible family but his miserable condition and that of his family. I'm sure there is nothing so appalling as a car full of hungry kids at Christmas time. The objective was to elicit sympathy not disdain but also to suggest there is some culpability attributable to el Mexicano viejo.

ultima said...

"Technically, you can make up or find a true story just like that one with any un-educated man's family in America. It's typical of the poor, why single out a Mexican man's family? Why exagerate so grossly?

There's nothing average about that particular story, it's full of exagerrations."

The story was true. Exaggeration is a valid literary device. A story like this cannot be about everyone who is poor. It is necessary to single out a family. I could have used my own family as an example, and in fact I did in the work of fiction I wrote. Both my immigrant grandmother and my immigrant grandfather died in their 30s or 40s and they were very poor their entire life in this country. My grandfather was a skilled craftsman, a cabinet maker but that didn't help him when the economy turned down in the late 1800s. My mother ended up in an orphanage.

I chose the Mexican because his was a true story and because illegal aliens are the primary topic of this blog.

ultima said...

"Those who speak two languages count for two... "

Two what? People whose government failed to save them from this incredible waste of time and money? I see no virtue in it for most.

ultima said...

""...others succesful and gainfully employed." But, on the whole, that man's family was a failure."

To a pessimist maybe, to an optimist, a sign of hope. It would be nice if everyone produced Lake Woebegone children--all above average, all successful and all well-adjusted, kind, thoughtful,etc. In some families, that is just not the case. The Mexican's family was one example, perhaps better than some families and worse than others. Why take the pessimistic view?

ultima said...

"There's nothing average about that particular story, it's full of exagerrations."

It was not intended to be about an average family. It could have been about an average uninteresting family or a family of overachievers. It was about this family--a true story. The extrapolation to others is the fault of the reader not the writer.

ultima said...

"If you want to stop poverty and inequality you don't just sit back and watch it grow."

A nice platitude but what would you do: expand government welfare largess, raise taxes (how much?), socialize medicine, guarantee everyone's income regardless of effort on their part, communism, socialism, Marxism. What exactly did you have mind? What would you do if you were a benevolent dictator? Do you think all incomes should be equal regardless of effort or contribution to society?

ultima said...

"When the rule of law is ignored at the top why should you expect the bottom to follow it?

Has everyone accepted that illegal-immigration is a United States de-facto policy?

If we can forgive those on top who implement and benefit from ignoring the laws why can't we forgive those at the bottom who suffer from it?"

Everyone has not accepted that illegal immigration is our de facto policy. A few are doing what they can to defeat that notion. There are millions of apprehension every year. We just need to do more. Until we do some will call it de facto open borders but that is patently wrong since some work is being done.

I excuse neither the top nor the bottom and neither should you.

ultima said...

"Nobody ever takes into account inflation when making their biased calculations..."

I always do and every economist does. Similarly, anyone who does such studies must do this or be disqualified or ignored. All such studies should be stated in constant dollars.

Can you do this problem: Suppose you have $100,000 in an investment and you want it to provide constant purchasing power for each of 20 years during your retirement. Assuming a rate of return of 6% and inflation at 3.12%, what constant purchasing power dollar amount could you withdraw each year?

ultima said...

"Because they are typically poor..."

Yep, you got that right. So does that make you an advocate of increasing the poverty level in this country by allowing poor illegal aliens and legal immigrants to flood into our country. This is certainly a good solution for their homelands but increasing the level of poverty in this country doesn't seem quite like the right course of action, assuming you want this country to survive in somewhat its present condition.

ultima said...

"And Juan Diego was God's way of showing the indigenous people of New Spain the way?"

I guess they weren't listening, or "the way" God had in mind was not very appealing.

ultima said...

"The state is responsible for the state's success or failure..."

Gee, and here I thought it was the government of the people, for the people and by the people.

ultima said...

"So it's the compassionate citizens fault even though they don't benefit at all from illegal-immigration. Rather than the fault of those who are anything but compassionate for any American or foreigner and who are making record profits?"

But compassionate citizens do benefit every time they buy anything produced,harvested or built by illegals. Is this the reason for their compassion? We all share this error.

ultima said...

"This is impossible..."

This item was excerpted from a speech by Professor/President Woodrow Wilson. I guess he didn't know what he was talking about.

Dee said...

Gosh Ulty. I just saw this post and saw it had 53 comments. At first, I thought it would be a nice Christmas story, maybe about a personal experience you and your family may have had with a Hispanic family. As I read on I got the gist. Oh well. Too much to hope for -- a nice memory.

In one way we are similar. I too have been thinking about Christmas and family lately. I´m not visiting my mom this month because my family wants me to stay home and decorate and bake cookies, like a good mom and grandmother. My son also said he doesn´t want to deprive me of the most important Christmas gift. If I spent money in SA visiting my mom, I would have less for my greatest gift, "the gift of giving." (LOL -- his little joke)

I wrote a couple of Christmas and family memories for my blog. Will you think of a nice memory that happened with your family maybe one with Hispanics in it - just for something of a positive note? Maybe just a short one?

mirrorism said...

"What exactly would you consider respect and sympathy for the poor beyond what we already do in the way of voluntary donations and indirect donations through our tax dollars. Would an increase in government largess and confiscatory tax rates be a way to protect us from third world status?"

On respect, well, the people who believe the poor are helpless do not respect the poor. Those who do not believe in improving their deplorable schools, because they haven't proven themselves worthy, do not respect the poor. Those who don't believe in improving their neighborhoods, because they'll trash them anyway, do not respect the poor. And generally, those who use the word "handout" do not respect the poor... Those who say things like; "my tax money" or "welfare mommas" do not respect the poor...

Yeah, lots of people feeding the poor on Thanksgiving or donating toys on Christmas, but how does that help them during the rest of the year?

"What do you do to show your respect and sympathy for the poor? Is that really significantly different from what the average American does?"

I vote for those who aren't afraid to raise taxes.

mirrorism said...

"We should all have equal rights under the law but we are not created equal in terms of native intelligence, ambition, talent, physique, appearance,citizenship, allegiance,language, culture,politics, etc. and it is absurd to pretend otherwise. So us/them --Americans-- aren't an cannot be all alike."

Well, we're talking about two different things... You're judging developed peoples, I'm thinking about newborns. However, culture and politics are all the same for those who grow up in the U.S, and the meaning of allegiance is debatable.



"But the former are our SOBs and the latter are someone elses."

Their kids are ours...



"Does this mean there is a different saint for every day of the year or does a particular saint hold sway over several days out of the calendar?"

It depends, I believe most of the time it's over several days, but some have their own.

mirrorism said...

So you were talking about a real family, well, that's fine, but some people will judge it as an example of a typical Mexican family. You actually described his story as being an "average or mean" to me, when in fact, they're gross exagerrations.

1. 50% higher than American women is almost 3, not 7.
2. I was probably a little too sensitive here... Some people can't learn new languages past a certain age, and some people just don't care, which is fine and accepted once you consider how open businesses and the government is to speaking Spanish.
3. The drop out rate stinks for a variety of reasons; the typical working class Mexican immigrant did not get much of an education therefore does not value it as much, the typical son believes that it is in his destiny to find working class jobs just like his father, the typical daughter believes that it is in her destiny to find a working classing husband just like her mother; the typical Mexican immigrant is poor and therefore lives in bad neighborhoods and sends their kids off to terrible schools.

Overall, I believe attending terrible schools and living in dangerous neighborhoods are bigger factors than indifferent parents.

However, that can all be changed through changing his surroundings away from home. Improving the conditions of their schools and neighborhoods. Hiring enthusiastic teachers who understand and believe that if one lives from his imagination instead of his history he can achieve anything.


Technically, the facts weren't in evidence, but you did say this:

"The Americans assumed initially that the children, at least, were learning English and staying in school until they graduated, offering the prospect that they would eventually become socially integrated and culturally and linguistically assimilated."

To me, it seemed as if you were implying that they didn't learn English, I would say that they didn't learn Spanish, and some would say that they didn't learn either. I'm surprised that people don't talk about that third opinion much... There's probably some truth to it.

mirrorism said...

By $$$ I mean some are born into it and some aren't... Typically those with it tend to be smarter, healthier, more successful, etc. than those without.



I'm not sure if we're on the verge of collapse, but I know that monster debt somehow does not equal bankruptcy in the U.S.; from the average American's debt--which is something like $9k credit card debt per household--all the way up to our country's debt--which is something like $9 trillion.

"I like to emphasize both"

True, but in general, most people place most of the blame on illegal-immigrants, they make them the scapegoats, however, they'll never blame themselves either because they hire them or by proxy, our elected politicians.

I believe it's inevitable because we can't control the rest of the world's population, especially those countries who are growing economically; saving a few million here will not save us from the billion+ populations of China and India, for example.

We have to focus our attention on other solutions, such as alternative sources of energy or we can stop wasting so much energy; you know, maybe we can get away from being a disposable and SUV society.

Why do you believe it's an incredible waste of time and money? I think people who have mastered two or more languages are typically intelligent people, same as those who have mastered a musical instrument; IIRC, it has something to do with working out the right or opposite side of your brain.

mirrorism said...

"what would you do: expand government welfare largess, raise taxes (how much?), socialize medicine,"

Yes (although I wouldn't use that terminology), yes (until it hurts or just stop filling our war chest and funding the war on drugs), yes (although again I wouldn't use that terminology)...

"guarantee everyone's income regardless of effort on their part,"

No, I would guarantee everyone respect and equal opportunity for success in life...

"communism, socialism, Marxism."

Socialism is already here, thank you FDR.

"Do you think all incomes should be equal regardless of effort or contribution to society?"

That's a little too extreme... I would do whatever it takes, besides that, to combat the growing inequality in the U.S.

"I excuse neither the top nor the bottom and neither should you."

I'm quicker to excuse the bottom, you the top.

mirrorism said...

"Can you do this problem:"

Nope. But I can imagine that $100k is not enough... 401k plans ask for $400k or so.

I would appreciate it if you gave me a link or a lesson that explains that problem.

"So does that make you an advocate of increasing the poverty level in this country by allowing poor illegal aliens and legal immigrants to flood into our country."

No, if we improve their living conditions they won't fall victim to our cycle of perpetual poverty.

"I guess they weren't listening, or "the way" God had in mind was not very appealing."

Of course they were listening, almost everyone is Catholic in Mexico.

"Gee, and here I thought it was the government of the people, for the people and by the people."

True, so why are we blaming those without the power to vote?

"This item was excerpted from a speech by Professor/President Woodrow Wilson. I guess he didn't know what he was talking about."

"I believe one's affections may be divided, but his allegiance, loyalty and patriotism are inseparable; and this applies with equal force to citizens and permanent legal residents of all nationalities and ethnicities who have made our country their home."

President Woodrow Wilson probably said the first part, but the second part... over his dead body!

Lupita said...

Ah Lupe

Nobody calls me Lupe.

ultima said...

""I believe one's affections may be divided, but his allegiance, loyalty and patriotism are inseparable; and this applies with equal force to citizens and permanent legal residents of all nationalities and ethnicities who have made our country their home."

President Woodrow Wilson probably said the first part, but the second part... over his dead body!"

I am re-reading the book I found this Wilson quote to verify that I quoted its essence accurately but so far all I have been able to find are the following quotes from the same time period:

"The gravest threats against our national peace and safety have been uttered within our own borders. There are citizens of the United States, I blush to admit,
(sometimes)born under other flags but welcomed by generous naturalization laws to the full freedom and opportunities of America, who have poured the poison of disloyalty into the arteries of our national life."

--Pres. Wilson speaking to Congress, December 7, 1915

"New arrivals (of legal immigrants) should be limited to our capacity to absorb them into the ranks of good citizenship."

--Pres. Coolidge, 1923, first message to Congress

ultima said...

""Can you do this problem:"

Nope. But I can imagine that $100k is not enough... 401k plans ask for $400k or so.

I would appreciate it if you gave me a link or a lesson that explains that problem."

The easiest way to do this problem is with the Microsoft Excel PMT function. It can also be done manually or with an HP-12C calculator.

The first key is what I call the "real accretion rate". If your investment rate of return is 6% and inflation is 3.12% (a 20 year moving average), then the real accretion rate is 100 X ((1.06/1.0312)-1)or 2.79%. Insert that and other values into the PMT function: =PMT(0.0279,20,400000,,1)
where 20 represents the number of years you wish your 401k funds to last,400000 is the expected value of your 401k in nominal dollars at retirement,the double commas simply mean the irrelevant future value is omitted, and finally the 1 indicates that this calculation is for an Annuity Due with payments at
the beginning of each period (year). A zero in that position would indicate that the payments would be made at the end of the period. This produces a result of $25,651/year which then can be incremented annually by the inflation rate such that at the beginning of the second year one could draw $25,651 X 1.0312 or $26,452, etc.

If one was 45 years old now and expected to accumulate $400,000 in his or her 401k by age 65, inflation becomes a factor in that consideration also. Obviously, $400,000 20 years from now will not buy as much as $400,000 today. So in the above example, the $25,651 will buy only $25,651/(1.0312)^20 or $13,876 in terms of today's purchasing power. So if your minimum retirement income need in today's dollars is $50,000, you need additional investments or pension plans. Social security may fill in part of the gap but who knows whether it will be there to produce the same annuity as it would today. At least that source would be adjusted for inflation which is the same thing we were trying to do in the original example.

One can also verify the results of the above example by extended the calculations for the full 20 year period of retirement to see if in the last year the balance is zero.
So in the first year the beginning balance would be $400,000. If you take the first payment at the beginning of the period, that would leave an adjusted balance of $374,349 which would continue to earn an investment return of 6%, leaving an ending balance of $374,349 X 1.06 = $396,810. This becomes the beginning balance for the second year, etc.

The calculation using the HP-12C calculator is similar:

fFin (to clear the financial memories)
gBeg (to set the payments at the beginning of each period)
20 n (to set the number of periods)
2.79 i (to set the accretion rate)
400000 PV (to set the present value or beginning balance)
PMT gives the result $25,651.

ultima said...

The formula for a manual calculation is available on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annuity_(finance_theory)#Annuity_Due

ultima said...

Here's the formula I use if I don't use Excel or the HP12C.

PV = PMT[(1+i)-(1+i)^(1-N)]/i
Solving for PMT:

PMT = PV/{[(1+i)-(1+i)^(1-N)]/i} or
PMT = PVi/[(1+i)-(1+i)^(1-N)]
PMT = 400000 x .0279/[(1.0279)- (1.0279^(-19)]
PMT = $25,657

The earlier answer also should have been $25,657. I misread the 7 as a 1.

The formula for an Ordinary Annuity with payments at the end of the period is slightly different.

PV = PMT[1-((1+i)^-N)]/i

It gets a little trickier if you want to consider monthly payouts with a daily interest rate compounded quarterly or some other such combination. I like to keep it relatively simple by using an annual rate and an annual payout.

ultima said...

"No, if we improve their living conditions they won't fall victim to our cycle of perpetual poverty."

And what marginal income tax rate are you prepared to pay to accomplish this task? What ever happened to that idea, "God helps those who help themselves." How much would fewer children or waiting to have children until they are able to support, educate and provide medical care for them alleviate their perpetual cycle of poverty? At what level do taxes become confiscatory resulting in less incentive for the most productive and innovative among us?

ultima said...

""I guess they weren't listening, or "the way" God had in mind was not very appealing."

Of course they were listening, almost everyone is Catholic in Mexico."

So what "way" did God have in mind or doesn't he speak to you on this subject? Perhaps he said, "Obey the law, overcome your oligarchs and fix your country. Don't expect others to fix your problems." In other words help yourselves.

ultima said...

"True, so why are we blaming those without the power to vote?"

There's enough blame to go around for everyone: illegals who have violated the law, employers who employ them, governments who pass laws they do not enforce, and voters who don't demand different behavior before they accord their vote to anyone running for office.

ultima said...

"Nope. But I can imagine that $100k is not enough... 401k plans ask for $400k or so.

I would appreciate it if you gave me a link or a lesson that explains that problem."

This is basically an annuity problem so you can google something like annuity formulas or annuity due formulas.

Perhaps for most the basic problem is how big should my kitty be at retirement in order to provide some specified level of income. There are a lot retirement calculators around on the web, most are not perfect. Some ignore inflation altogether. That is a critical factor for the two reasons I cited: $400,000 will buy a lot more today than it will in 20 years and if you want to maintain constant purchasing power after you retire you must take inflation into account.

I have been trying to learn more about annuities but am still not up to speed on all aspects. There are qualified and unqualified annuities, periodic and non-periodic distributions and distributions before the start and distributions on or after the start date and the tax treatment seems to be different for each. It appears that the IRS requires an annuity to be drawn down over the life expectancy of the annuitant at the time it starts. Apparently you can draw more but not less than that amount on a periodic basis.

ultima said...

"stop filling our war chest and funding the war on drugs"

An interesting concept. Do you have some dealer friends? Is your neighborhood free of drug-related crime? Would you be in favor of de facto elimination of all jail sentences for drug dealing?

Is it possible to have "social" security without national security first?

ultima said...

I will be off the blogasphere for a while--tendonitis.

ultima said...

"Will you think of a nice memory that happened with your family maybe one with Hispanics in it - just for something of a positive note? Maybe just a short one?"

Mostly, when I was child there were no Hispanics around. Some began to appear when I was teenager, perhaps as a result of the Bracero program. I didn't actually talk with any of them at that time until I worked in a canning factory during the summer. Those who were there were from Mexico and they had an interpreter from a university in Mexico City. I take with one or two of them and found them interesting. More recently, on a visit to Wisconsin, my brother introduced me to a friend of his called Roberto. I bought him a
drink but declined when he wanted to reciprocate. He was a little upset until my brother explained that I had to drive all day the next day and needed a clear head. I'm not how my brother met Roberto.
Perhaps he was a member of the American Legion. My brother was the local and district commander at one time or another. Roberto seemed friendly and apparently my brother thought of him as more than just an acquaintance. Roberto spoke excellent English and appeared to be well-assimilated.

The Christmas story is a true one but second hand. I did not know el Mexicano viejo personally. I did sell an auto to one I met in Brigham City, Utah and I chatted with his teen aged daughter for a few minutes.

I have never had problem associating folks from other races. I several Japanese-American friends in the U.S. and, of course, a couple of Japanese girl friends in Japan. I invited my Thai lab instructor at USC to dinner at my home. She approached me one day and asked why Americans were so anti-catholic. I didn't have a good answer except to say I didn't many were any more so than the catholics had some misgivings about protestants or evangelicals.

I was fortunate to be the eighth child of a family of eight. My brothers and sisters therefore bought me presents for Christmas from their meager earnings, my sister took care of me when my mother was in the hospital, and rescued me when i fell into a well. One brother gave me summer employment in his grocery store. A Mexican migrant stopped in one day and I asked him, "Le gusta a Usted los frijoles pintos? with my fractured high school Spanish. I then helped him to find the things he was looking for in the store.

Another brother taught me about birds and I did a lot of bird watching with him.

We were poor, had no medical insurance,were crowded in our small drafty, 60-year old house but I consider myself to have had a happy childhood.

My Dad worried about another great depression and encouraged me to get a job right out of high school. But I said, "No, Dad, I'm going to college." He was in no position to help but that didn't stop me. In those days kids used to send their laundry home in a special case designed for that purpose. I guess there were no laundromats in those days. My Mom always put some goodies in the case before she sent it back. It's hard to even think why I did that but it was common practice back and the postage was cheap.

At college,I lived in house with six women, two of them were Black, Connie & Alethea. When I was getting ready to leave for the summer, they asked me if they could give me a kiss. I guess I turned seven shades of red and pink, causing Connie to say, "He may not be black but you've got to admit he's colored." That has always been a fond memory--that someone in those circumstances would ask if they could kiss me.

mirrorism said...

"And what marginal income tax rate are you prepared to pay to accomplish this task?"

The money is already there; once we stop wasting it on funding public and private wars abroad and funding the war on drugs we can use it on our own.

As far as what I'm prepared to pay, well, I don't need much to feel comfortable, others need the warmth of their HDTVs and the "safety" of their SUVs.

Raising taxes, however, is a sore subject for most Americans regardless of political party, last name, or skin tone, so that's why I prefer to focus on the war chest and war on drugs. The money's already there.

"What ever happened to that idea, "God helps those who help themselves."

Who ever came up with that idea doesn't know God.

"How much would fewer children or waiting to have children until they are able to support, educate and provide medical care for them alleviate their perpetual cycle of poverty?"

Contraceptives are expensive and are looked down upon by the Catholic church... Sexual education is taboo...


"So what "way" did God have in mind or doesn't he speak to you on this subject? Perhaps he said, "Obey the law, overcome your oligarchs and fix your country. Don't expect others to fix your problems." In other words help yourselves."

So now He speaks to you? Are you a believer in "The Secret"? That's the only "school of thought" that believes that if someone doesn't have something, then they don't really want it, they don't deserve it.

Anyway, in Mexico you cannot "overcome the oligarchs" without breaking the law... What you're asking for is a revolution, nobody wants that, you especially.

And again with the help yourselves thing, I should have mentioned that earlier, it's more of the same blame the victim mentality that I absolutely abhor.

"Do you have some dealer friends? Is your neighborhood free of drug-related crime? Would you be in favor of de facto elimination of all jail sentences for drug dealing?"

Yeah, my mailman is a drug dealer and he doesn't even know it(R.I.P. Mitch Hedberg). No neighborhood is free of drug-related crime simply because everyone uses drugs which is why I am in favor of legalizing all drugs, but would settle for at least marijuana.

"Is it possible to have "social" security without national security first?"

You call the Iraq War national security? Afghanistan?

mirrorism said...

Almost forgot to thank you for that lesson. I've copied it and will study it more thoroughly when I get the chance. Thank you.

mirrorism said...

And take care of that tendinitis, I hear rest is the best cure.

ultima said...

"And take care of that tendinitis, I hear rest is the best cure."

Yes, I believe you are right. I am also taking some Aleve but I don't want to continue that for very long. It does have potential side effects.

You are welcome for the lesson. If you have any questions, I may be able to help.